A Year in Review Podcasting with Arjuna George

Cindy

[00:00:00] It is time to ignite your soul and unlock your full potential. Join us on Beneath the Helmet, the podcast Exploring Firefighters health and Wellness. Hosted by Retired Fire Chief Arjuna George. Our podcast is the perfect place to start your journey towards becoming the best version of yourself. So come on, let's join the conversation and find out what sets your soul on fire.

All right. Welcome back, everyone. This is episode number 49, Beneath the Helmet, on BeneathTheHelmet. ca. Uh, so today I get a chance to sit down with the author of this great book, Sister in a Brotherhood. This is Cindy Schrooner Ball, uh, Sister in the Brotherhood, Stories from the Life of a Female Firefighter.

So myself and Cindy are going to have a great conversation about her life and her experience growing up in the fire service, uh, [00:01:00] her writing this book to share with the world, but also more importantly, her next kind of encore, uh, passion, and that is promoting the fire service to both men and women, uh, all generations, all ages.

And just really exposing the benefits of the fire service, uh, to those who may be interested in doing that as a volunteer or as a career option. So I hope you enjoy this great episode. Uh, sit back, relax. Until next time, stay well.

all right. Welcome back to the show. Everyone. Uh, I got another amazing guest on the show today. A fellow author today, I got a chance to sit down with a great conversation with retired captain, uh, Cindy Schooner Ball, who's, uh, the author of this great book. Sister in the Brotherhood.

So highly recommend checking that out. Some great stories she's sharing. So welcome to the show, Cindy. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Fantastic. Tell us a little bit about your story. Who, who's Cindy and how or kind [00:02:00] of get to where you are today? Well, I, um, I didn't start out wanting to become a firefighter, uh, in, in my time, you know, as a little girl, that wasn't, that wasn't something that I was drawn to.

Um, But I, I grew up in a, uh, in a impoverished town, uh, neighborhood in, in, in, uh, northern Ohio. And I always say, maybe in the back of my mind, what, what clicked is, uh, I was six and I, my brother was 12 and we didn't have any money for Christmas presents. My parents didn't have any money. So the firefighters came to our home.

And they gave me my first doll and my brother, a bowling set. And I would say, well, maybe somewhere in the back of my mind, you know, that, that stuck, but, um, I was raised by my sister and brother in law in Florida. So I've been in Florida since I was like, you know, 11 to 13, I'd go back and forth. And then 13, they became my legal [00:03:00] guardians.

Um, I was out on my own at 16, met a boy, we lived together for 12 years. And in the course of that time, I worked all kinds of jobs, uh, you know, uh, Banking and secretary and just anything to put food on the table. A lot of restaurant work. I did a lot of modeling in the, in that day in that time frame. But, you know, was a bank teller model or a waitress model, you know, secretary, all of that stuff.

In the meantime, my, my, my boyfriend, um. He wanted to go to fire school. He had been a forest ranger and one of his buddies said, you need to become a firefighter. So, long story short, I helped put him through school. He became a firefighter for a small, uh, a small, uh, department, uh, outside of, uh, South Florida.

And I would go and visit him. And in the meantime, I wasn't 18 years old, then I was in my 20s and just kind of getting disillusioned with the way my life was going as far as what [00:04:00] was I going to do for the rest of my life? Because I found those jobs boring, actually. And I couldn't see myself being a bank teller for 30 years.

So I'd go in and look cute at the fire station, look cute at the firehouse, um, and have dinner with him like all the girlfriends and wives do. And, um, I was expressing my discontentment to the chief and he said, you ought to become a firefighter because at that point I was really angry. I, I. I pride myself on loving exercise and I was doing a lot of races and working out and really strong and fit and I was in my later twenties and I looked at him like he was nuts and as the way I said thanks but no thanks and the guys at the table said hey we'll help you we know you're in better shape than most of us most of the guys we know and I said no thanks but no thanks and I say in my book as the wheels of you know fate happened they turned I ended up splitting up with my boyfriend and you [00:05:00] Then deciding what am I going to do?

And, um, I found myself in the unemployment office, which I always had a job. You know, I wasn't raised to, I never had unemployment, but I saw a sign and it said, if you're an American Indian, call this number and it just so happened. I was, my great grandfather was a full blooded Mohawk Indian. And I was ashamed of being an Indian because I was taunted and bullied and my brother as well.

Anyway, I don't know what happened there. Um, but anyway, um, my mother had given me a note, a letter that was a sign that was, uh, it was basically, uh, my great grandfather. had to go before a judge and say, I'm, he was a full blooded American, uh, Mohawk Indian. His parents had died in the cholera of 1800s. He was born on the banks of the Sandusky River.

And the judge, you know, signed off on it. And my mother gave me that letter saying, you, you might need [00:06:00] that one day. And I'm like, no. I'm never using this, but I put it in a drawer here. I'm in the unemployment office and I saw that sign and I knew I wanted to be a firefighter, but I didn't have the money.

I went to talk to the counselor there. She was great. And she said, I said, look, I really want to be a firefighter. I want to go. I have to go to the fire academy, but I don't have a hundred dollars. It's a hundred dollars. You know, I drove him. Volkswagen that broke down all the time. So she said, fantastic, because that's kind of an odd request.

They had a, you know, a jobs program and all of that. And she just looked at me like, you want to be a firefighter? I'm like, yeah, I do. So they, they provided me with the means financially, and I signed up for the Fire Academy and got through that. And then at that point in time, I thought that was tough. I mean, I loved it.

But in the state of Florida, you have to get your state of Florida fire certificate first. And then after you get [00:07:00] that, and I passed, you have to start applying to all the different fire departments and find out when they're testing. That was, you know, back in the days before, you know, internet. I mean, now it's a little different, but then you, you looked on, you looked on the, on the, on the board at the fire academy, and they had little index cards or, or just a sign.

These are the departments that will be testing in the next few months. And this is the procedures where you have to call, fill out the paperwork and sign up to take their tests. So I did that and I stayed in the Tri County area and I stayed and I did that for a year and I knew I wanted to stay in South Florida and I tested for a year and every department then you took a physical agility and a written and an oral and according to your scores you got placed on a list that was probably good for six months.

So a year went by and I got hired by Broward County, which was Broward County Fire. It was separate from Broward County EMS and that's in South Florida. [00:08:00] And then I was, then once I was hired, I was one of two women. And if I thought that the academy was tough, that was like kindergarten compared to this, because I have five and a half weeks of, you know, training in July.

In Florida, we had still bottles then. And, uh, you know, we, uh, they put me through the ringer and I, you know, I loved every minute of it, but, you know, five and a half weeks. And if you fail any part of it, you're out. And the woman I got hired was said, you know. If we're going to cry, which we never did, cause she was a triathlete and I was in shape.

I said, she said, we'll do it in the bathroom, but we'll come out and we'll never let them see us sweat to see a sweat. So we did. And, uh, five and a half weeks and, uh, passed all of those tests. The, the, the last day was a full day of going through the maze and [00:09:00] trying to find a coin and, and, uh, colored coin and all of that.

So lo and behold, I passed and, um, Chief, that was one of our training officers, old crusty guy. He, he was great. He, this is how, how different it was. Then they put all the shifts, you know, you have alpha Bravo and Charlie shift. And they put all the, all the, uh, shifts in a hat and he said, okay, everybody come over here and pick out, just reach in the hat and whatever shift.

Whatever paper you pull out, that's, that's the shift you're going to go on. And so I pulled it out and it was alpha shift. And then you're on probation for a year, you know, you're tested for a year. And again, if you fail at any point in time, you're not, you're not covered by your union at that point.

You're just, you know, you have to get through a year and that, that started my career. And in the meantime, I had signed up for EMT school because that was the golden goose then, you know, to be an EMT. So I was going to EMT school. As soon as I got, you know, done with our five and a half week boot camp, uh, shortly before that, I'd go to both.

I'd be, [00:10:00] I'd be training all day and then drive my car to the academy for EMT school. So I passed that. And, uh, then I just, you know, I, I loved it. I, I never looked back. It's a fantastic career. And, you know, people would always ask me, which is, I guess, you know, kind of a roundabout way of writing the book is I had, I had, you know, so many times I was the only woman for, for years.

And it's particularly on, on the fire truck. And, um, I love to write because I had been a, just a love to read since I was a little kid. I love to write. And, um, I, uh, it, when I was going for my fire officer one, we had to take English comp and it reignited my passion for writing. I had just hadn't put a thought about it and I just started writing stories.

And then, you know, the process when I was getting close to retired, and then, then I retired, um, in the process of just moving up the ranks. My story is, you know, I started out [00:11:00] riding backwards on a fire truck and. Then I was going to school for my fire officer one. I was taking the driver engineer test. So I was taking the lieutenant's test.

So I was an acting driver and an acting lieutenant for, like, 12 years on a fire truck, but in the meantime, Broward Fire and Broward EMS merged in the early 90s, and in order to really promote, you had to become a paramedic. So, 15 years into my career, I got a paramedic school and that's not for sissies either, but I love the medicine.

It's not why I got into it. I got into being a firefighter. I love going in, you know, burning buildings, all that, you know, that adrenaline rush and all of that stuff. And I, and I loved it, but being a paramedic just added to it. And I ended up, uh, I had a choice. Did you want to, do you want to be a promoted driver or a Lieutenant?

And at that point I said, I want to take a Lieutenant's position. So I was promoted to lieutenant. Then when I got my paramedic, I was put on a rescue truck [00:12:00] and I did a lot of time and very busy houses on rescues. Um. I floated all over Broward County, which is a huge, you know, backs up to Miami and Palm Beach.

It's huge. Um, in the meantime, I knew that I wanted to be a captain and run the house. And so I took the captain's test and ended up, you know, making captain. And then I just, I floated all over. So it was great. One day I'd be on a rescue, one shift I'd be on a ladder truck, next shift I'd be on an engine.

And so, you know, I had a very, very, uh, varied career and worked all over Broward and, and, and loved it. So that's my message to particularly young females. But the story is, is, you know, go for it. If you're, you know, if you think that you want to do something like that, go for it. Yeah. It was quite the, uh, going through your book, it was quite the, you know, the progression through your career.

And I love how you kind of dovetailed it with stories and events and. Definitely brought you through a journey, uh, of [00:13:00] your life, right? So absolutely. So this was in the eighties, correct? Yes. Yes. I got hired in 87, 1987. So paint us a picture of what the fire service was like in 1987 compared to what you see in today's fire service.

Well, I think as well as safety, you know, the whole gamut. Okay. I think, uh, You know, my husband and I have talked about it a lot because, you know, we met in the fire station and we just celebrated our 34th anniversary, which was great. Yeah. So, you know, we talked, we talked about it and, and, you know, people asked me that a lot because the 80s were, were rough for women to particularly be in male predominated fields.

Um, I, uh. I was lucky because our department was really young. It was volunteer, and a lot of the guys were young. And I think they were a lot more accepting. You can do the job. Um, not to say I didn't have people, [00:14:00] you know, try to press me. The culture of the firehouse back then, as I say in my book, you gotta have somewhat of a thick skin.

And you have to draw your line in the sand of what's gonna be appropriate behavior that you'll, language or anything. And what's not, and that's important. Um, and so I did, I, I, and a big part of that, I think for me, as crazy as it sounds is I wasn't 18 years old. I wasn't like a really naive 18 year old girl, you know, going into that profession.

I was 30 when I got hired and I turned 31. I had been a model when I was 22 and I had worked in all kinds of jobs. So I had put up with really sketchy men, very young. And it really strengthened my resolve that by the time I got to be a firefighter, I wasn't going to let anything or anyone to tear me, um, you know, there were, there were the, [00:15:00] the firehouse culture was a lot different than, um, you know, you could, I mean, you know, the guys would have their, their, their lockers and in their lockers, they'd have pictures of playmates and things like that.

And some of the language was salty, but, you know, I, I drew my line in the sand of what I thought was appropriate at the time, and I will say it's kind of funny because I worked with some really crusty old chiefs that gave me the benefit of the doubt, and they were really good to me. So they, they, they saw how hard I worked and how much I wanted it and how passionate I was for it.

And I think they were a little bit kind of amused that. Who is this, you know, this young woman that, you know, what is doing this and doing it well? So they gave me the benefit of the doubt. Uh, I think the culture today, I, I don't know. I, I used to mentor a lot of young females as well as males and, and talk to them and.

You know, don't get too familiar, you know, stand your ground, be professional, because, you know, I [00:16:00] think it's something that men grow up with is they want to help you with everything. And I can remember, you know, checking out the truck, I started the saws, you know, and then when I was a driver, I was climbing underneath the truck, you know, I was laying underneath the checking the fluids, doing all those things, lifting things, checking generators, and sometimes at the beginning, the guys would say, well, let me, let me do that for you.

Or let me help you. No, you do your job and I have my job. If I need help, I will ask you. And, you know, I think that's the difference that you have to, you have to be strong physically, obviously, and mentally. And you have to know that, you know, people have certain jobs in the firehouse, and you need to be able to do them, not to say that you can't ask for, you know, assistance, of course, if you need, you know, we work as a team, you know, that, and so that's, that's, that's different.

That's my take on the, on the culture today is, I think it'd be tough. I've talked to some women. Today. And, and I don't know, they're, [00:17:00] they're, uh, sometimes I feel like they, they don't, they're not standing up for themselves like they should. I'm not saying run to HR because, you know, I mean, you have to be able to pull somebody aside and say, Hey, you know, talk to them.

Don't just, don't just let, you know, them all of a sudden get a, get a notice that now you're going to go downtown. You know what I mean? And I think that's, those are important things that people need to realize. Women need to realize. Yeah. Open up that line of communication and have that conversation.

Open up that line. Yes, open up that line. A single conversation could nip it in the bud right there, right? So right there, right there, instead of, you know, possibly somebody losing their career or, you know, how that goes. Um, but yeah. When you, when you say crusty chief, what does that, what does that mean? Oh, a crusty, well, I would say these were crusty.

These were, I worked with chiefs. One of them was, uh, he was, uh, just, uh, He was from New Jersey, Hackensack. He was a chief up there. And then we would get, you know, the joke was [00:18:00] a lot of the chiefs from New York would retire and they would come down and they would be our battalion chiefs, you know, second, second time around.

Um, and we just, and I just had, you know, these men that, you know, say I was 30, I mean, they were already. You know, they were in their late fifties, maybe sixties and they had been around and when I say crusty, it's just, they, they were, they were crusty seasoned. They were seasoned and, uh, but they were good.

They had good hearts. And like I said, they knew how hard I worked and how hard I wanted it. So. Uh, they were for the most part, really, really good to me.

So I'd love to hear what you're the most proud of through your whole career. Um, you had lots of highlights in your career. Uh, your story about your retirement was pretty, uh, pretty awesome. So what, what would you say is the standalone proudest moment in your career? Is there something that sticks out for you?

[00:19:00] Uh,

you know, there's, there's, there's a few things that stick out. Um, probably, you know, the proudest. Is to be able to retire with a, with having the full, uh, you know, retirement ceremony and have made it through unscathed and healthy and, and have, you know, uh, a good retirement to look forward to and all of that.

Although, you know, as I say in the book, my life turned upside down because, you know, you're what I was not prepared for was the, uh, adrenaline rush and the camaraderie and all those things that you don't have after retirement. But I would say, you know, the proudest would be when people come into the station or they wrote letters, the chief would, chief would present me with letters and say, Hey, you know, this person, you say, you know, your crew, you guys saved this person's life and either they'd walk in the station and thank you personally, or they would send letters up through the chain of command and I would, I would read it and it would, you know, it's gratifying to think that, you know, somebody was having a [00:20:00] major health incident and, you know, Now you and your crew, because their actions, they're walking around today.

And there's not a lot of, there's not a lot of, you know, professions that you can really say that. Nope. That is true. Yeah. It definitely, definitely lifts you up and gives you a sense of purpose, right? Like it does. And it makes, you know, all of the other stuff that you deal with that are not so, you know, you're not going to save everybody.

And we, you know, that I know that. And, and those are other issues you have to deal with, be able to deal with and, and everybody works it out differently. But that's the way I looked at it. You, you do the best you can. You and your crew, you do. mm-Hmm, , you know, over a hundred percent plus. And sometimes the outcome is good and sometimes it's just beyond your control.

Well, you mentioned that you kind of hit your retirement healthy and in, in good shape. Mm-Hmm. , physically and mentally. Mm-Hmm. . What was it that kinda kept you in that shape mentally and physically through your whole career? I think because I, for me working out, [00:21:00] particularly running, working out physically has always been like a mental thing for me as well.

I love it. I jump rope. I do all that and I love it for me. That was a big part of it. I worked out before I got the job, obviously, in the fire service and then, you know, you work out on duty if you can. So, you know, we always worked out. We had like these, you know, old old machines out in the bay where it's hot because, you know, we didn't have the newest.

Knew us some greatest stuff. But you know, we would put on music and after four o'clock, you know, after we, we, while we were preparing dinner and in between calls, we'd all go out in there and we'd have our headphones on and we'd all be out there doing something. Somebody would be on the treadmill, somebody'd be on the elliptical, I'd be jumping rope and uh, you know, it was a real, it was a really great thing.

We'd work out and, you know, and then sometimes we would get. Uh, banged out for calls and, you know, we'd be jumping on the truck and throwing our clothes on and jumping on the truck and responding. And sometimes we'd come back and finish the workout. Sometimes we were, [00:22:00] you know, we just kind of wanted to take a shower and have some food.

It's been pretty, uh, tough to do jump rope with a Walkman. Oh, I had, I had, I didn't have a Walkman, but I had headphones. I had little headphones, but, uh, but the guys were always amazed because. I've jumped rope like a boxer for, you know, I love it. So I could do it for 30 minutes and then I do all the step ups off the back of the firetruck.

And then, you know, all that stuff, pushups and just old school stuff, which is important. I mean, it's important, particularly with a job like that, but, uh, you know, it gives you. You know, there was not a, there was not an issue of me not being in shape. And that was, that's important. I think in a job like that.

You mentioned in your book, something about PTSD and you, I think you wrote a chapter 10 PTSD. Um, nah, not, not us. And then you said, of course we do, of course we PTSD. So what, what does that mean to you? [00:23:00] Of course we all have PTSD. Uh, we do. I believe PTSD has different levels. Um, I believe that for some, the PTSD is just recalling calls, particularly when you're an area in an area where they occurred or certain sounds, or you're with retirees or you're with people, and we're all talking about it.

Um, not everything's debilitating. Um, you know, I always say they're like ghosts in your memory banks. They come out. But what you choose to do with them, um, is, is an individual thing. And of course, uh, I'm really happy now that it's become acceptable for people to get help that need it because so many suffered because in the fire service and rescue, um, you didn't go to, you didn't say you had PTSD, or you needed help.

Um, you just didn't now. [00:24:00] They had, uh, they had people come around, uh, CISD people would come around when you had really, uh, critical calls or fatalities, particularly with children and things like that. They would, they would come around and you would be forced to go, which all the firefighters are like, we don't need to go to that.

We're fine. We're good. But, uh. And you also had to be careful because, you know, word would get around that, you know, maybe you weren't good to be, maybe, maybe they didn't want to work with you. So I've had people talk to me about all those things. For me personally, I just looked at it differently. I looked at it like, yeah, you know, if PTSD, it means that.

Yes, a certain environment you think about a call or you're with people and you, you, we talk when we get together with retirees. I mean, we all have these stories. It's just, it's crazy. The things that you still remember so many years after your retirement and, um, I mean, and I worked in houses where you ran 25 or 30 calls a shift.

That's in a 24 hour shift. So you're running on pure [00:25:00] adrenaline and you're running everything. Oh, lots of coffee. I should have bought, I should have bought stock in Starbucks because that was my thing. Um, but I think it's, there are, and I, I'm writing another book on PTSD and for First Responders, I'm working on it.

And people have come to me with their stories and said to me, gosh, you know, you know how messed up. You know, we work with people that it destroyed them and I really wasn't aware of, you know, a lot of the, a lot of the problems that people have really come to me now and told me that they're either dealing with now or they're getting help or they've, they've had problems in the past.

I mean, you know, a lot of divorces, a lot of, you know, alcohol abuse, that sort of thing, letting your health go. So it's a big problem. Um, that's now finally being recognized. In the fire service, fire rescue, whereas military is a little different. And I had somebody explain to me, cause we always kind of [00:26:00] blew it off and said, well, we're not soldiers.

You know, we're not over in some, you know, God forsaken place where we're people are shooting at us and we're shooting at them. And I had someone say, but Cindy, you don't, you don't understand. They do tours. They come home. We did 30 years or more of continuous, that has to have an effect. Yeah. And so it kind of made me look at it a little differently.

Yeah. I had a recent podcast guests say pretty much the exact same thing, but the one element that he added was that it's in our backyard as well. It's not overseas, like the military. We're actually fighting in our backyards for 30 years, um, versus, you know, some other country. Right. So yeah, it's, it's powerful.

It is. And, um, like I said, I, I look at it like, and I encourage people to, you know, There are really great resources out there now that are anonymous. Um, [00:27:00] I, I did a podcast for such an organization that was. Wow, they just, they go all over and talk to, you know, military as well as they do police officers and first responders.

And, um, you know, the help is out there. It's just a matter of, you know, if you choose to get it or not. For me, I, you know, I looked at it differently. And again, working out, I would, you know, sometimes I said I in the book, I would go for a nice hot run when I got home and just, you know, sweat it all out. Or sometimes I would go and have a, a cheeseburger, some fries and either a Coke or maybe a beer and then go home, go to bed, you know?

So, yeah, there's just different ways. Yep. So you mentioned your retirement and I know that's a struggle for a lot of people, especially if you've been there for almost three decades. Tell us a little bit about your retirement journey, the ups and downs, some of the challenges. Um, love to hear your experience and maybe some tidbits for people who are approaching retirement right now.

Well, [00:28:00] one thing I learned and that I encourage, I'm hoping other fire departments will do is they'd never prepare you for retirement. It's basically, okay, here's your retirement. And if you can have a ceremony, which, uh, which I was dead or, you know, like other people, my husband, they, he, he didn't want a ceremony.

Um, During the COVID, I found out it ruined a lot of people. They were so upset because you look forward if you want to have that ceremony your whole career and they didn't get to have it. So that, that was really tough. What, what I think for me is, you know, I was very thankful to have retirement, but at the time, you know, we were all also on a journey to, uh, leave the state and go out to the Pacific Northwest and start a new life.

And we had gone out there many times. My husband's from California, but we, we went out there. We had a lot of friends out there and I thought, okay, this is, this is going to be great. Um, it, it threw me for a loop. It threw me into a deep depression because now I never had, I didn't have structure and I wasn't in my home [00:29:00] environment.

I was in a completely new place. Even though I had friends, I had never lived in, you know, mountains and I had never, it never lived, uh, I had lived in Florida most of my life and I had, and also the fire service gives you such a sense of security and family and structure and then to all of a sudden not have that, uh, It sent me on a really big, probably five year depression.

That I didn't even, I didn't even, I mean, I don't think my husband even recognized me and I mean, we were going, going, going on these great trips and cruises and I say in my book, you know, I, I got sick, you know, I got, I got so run down, I ended up with, you know, abscess tooth and, and the flu. I mean, really, really sick with the flu.

And we had kept our house so we would go back and we were going to sell it and I, I talk about it in the book about, you know, what do you mean? I don't have, you know, where is the S and the Cape and the, you know, [00:30:00] I thought I was Superman and, and, you know, it really, it, it, it kicked me. And when we finally came home and I had just lost my German Shepherd at the time, uh, suddenly really, you know, and so that threw me for a loop.

We didn't have children. We had four, we had four legged kids. So he, uh, that threw me a loop. So all of those things just came together and it was, it was a pretty rough time for me. I felt like I had no purpose and I felt like, you know, I'm young. I mean, and I feel good. And now I have no purpose when you're used to such a structure for all those years and all of a sudden, you know, you have this freedom and, and, you know, it's great to be able to retire that, you know, I retired.

I was 58. I almost just before my 59th birthday. I mean, that's lucky, you know, to be able to do this, particularly with a good help fire service. You know, you got aches and pains, you know, we've all had [00:31:00] surgeries and things. I mean, that comes with it really, but relatively, you know, good shape. But the whole thing of just all of a sudden being in a completely new environment, no structure, you know, having friends, but just.

I feel like I was just thrown into an abyss. And that's basically what happened to me. Um, and it took me to, it took me to come back to Florida and I say, be quiet cause I was sick and just be, you know, be still and just really start thinking about life again. And that's, that I think for me is when I started to think about, I need to, I need to write a book.

I need to write this book. Cause people would ask me all the time, you know, being the only female and, you know, they ask you. You know, how, how was it, how, how are things being a female and how, you know, these calls, of course, they always ask you what, what was the worst call you ever, you've ever been on civilians do?

And you're like, oh, we don't talk about that. [00:32:00] Yeah, we don't. I mean, when we're all together, it's like, you know, you can't, you can't keep us quiet. But when we're with people who haven't ever done, I was like, no, we don't do that. We don't talk that. So, so do you think writing your book was the start of finding your purpose again?

Yes. Yes. Beautiful. Yes, it was. Um, like I said, I, I, I have always loved reading as well as writing. And I would keep a pad and a pen, uh, pad of paper and a pen by my bed when I was on duty. And certain calls, you know, certain things, uh, affect you more than others, and I would just write things, and I would write them down.

And, uh, you know, I one time wrote a lot of poems, and, but then I just started writing the stories. And then people started really inquisitively asking me, you know, how my career was from the littlest kids to the, you know, the elders that we would run on. And so I gradually put together stories. And then [00:33:00] when I retired, uh, and then it was funny because I, I said, I, I, I'm going to look for an editor and, uh, through my nephew, he knew someone that was a really good editor, but she was very busy.

And I, he said, she doesn't, she's not going to, you know, it's, you got to be really careful. I started sending out the query letters, you know, like the little resumes you send out for, uh, to find an editor, see if they'd be interested. And I finally told him, like, I'm sending these letters out because I'm going to do this.

I'm going to write this book. He said, well, listen. Send her a chapter, send her your query letter, and I will tell you, she will tell you whether she's interested or not, or if she thinks it's even going to work or not. I sent it to her, and I mean, it was lightning in a bottle. She got back with me immediately and said, you're a writer, you're a storyteller, and yes.

So I worked with her for a year, and it's amazing, like, you know, a 12, 000 word bunch of stories. She would push me. And pull [00:34:00] and certain things she would tell me, No, you cannot put that in the book. And then there were other times I would go, Oh, yes, I am going to put this in the book. So I worked with her for a year.

And then after that, she turned me over to another set of editors. And, uh, one that I'm still in contact with now, and they did really more of the proofreading. And in the meantime, people don't realize it. They say, oh, I'm going to write a book. But as you know, you're doing, you know, the illustration, you're trying to find an illustrator or pictures.

You're trying to get a good book person to do a book cover for you. You're, you know, there's a lot to it. And the legalities, you know, end up forming a business and. you know, I was never, I was not a business person, so all of that was kind of new. But in the meantime, um, then it got sent to Approved Readers and then it was, you know, put together.

And I'm, I'm proud of the book. Uh, I, I'm proud of it. And, um, it was a process of, of, of love, but boy, it was hard [00:35:00] work, but I'm proud of it. And my message was to, you know, get it out there and, and tell my story. Yeah, I think it's an amazing accomplishment, right? To, to just even have the idea and the guts and the bravery to put yourself out there, but then to finish it, I think is another huge element that so many people struggle with.

They write a book and they get to like 90 percent and they're like, uh, and then it just sits on the shelf. Right. So, yeah. Right. I had a lot of people tell me that. Yeah. Yeah. And you as an author would know, you know, I was one of them. I almost quit as well. Uh, very, very close. I was like, it, it did its job for me.

It was my own therapy right in it. And then I almost gave up and I was like, nah, I can't waste the nuggets and whatever, what I have to share. I can't waste that and just let me learn from it. I have to let other people learn from Yes. Yes. And it's, uh, and, and it's funny because I enjoyed it. I mean, the process was [00:36:00] hard.

And I mean, to take it from like 12, 000 words to a legitimate book. And again, you know, the push and pull of going through things. And one of the funny things is, uh, one of the young editors that I, that I was I turned, turned over to in the end, we would go back and forth because she's young and she didn't realize like terminology and she kept changing my, my word when I would use me, me and my crew, she would change it to team.

I say, no, we're not teams in the fire service. It's, we're a crew and I had to explain to her and there were a lot of different things. It was, it was kind of a funny process, but you have to think, you know, generation wise, you know, she's somebody in her twenties or, you know, completely different lingo if you work in an office or whatever, then the fire service has a very distinct, you know, military, paramilitary type, you know, language.

So, so this book was the launch of your purpose, uh, kind of reigniting your purpose in [00:37:00] your retirement. What's, what's this looking like now? What's your, what's your purpose now in life? Well, my purpose now is, uh, I've been going around and doing some signings, some podcasts, talking to people. Um, and also I'm working on two different books.

The one I'm really kind of working on, it'll be out, it'll take some time because people are, people are, uh, kind of hard, it's kind of hard for some people to tell their, their stories. And that's the one it's called Should Time Heal. The title could change, but I, I think, Should Time Heal is a good title because people always say Does Time Heal.

I say it should time heal, because your experiences are, uh, what make you who you are, and maybe that's, that's how we all grow as humans. Uh, so I'm working on that book, and then I just started something fun. I started writing a novel. Yeah, I saw that. I never thought I would do, you know, I always dreamed of it, [00:38:00] but I started doing it, and, um, I'm finding myself, it's fun.

I mean, the characters are a bunch of rogues, you know, retired. Firefighters, First Responders, uh, you know, uh, and, uh, yeah, it's just, uh, it's, it's a really fun project and they all have their, their little, their characters, you know, it's kind of fun to create that, huh? It is. I can see your face laid out.

Yeah, because they, they kind of take on a mind of their own. Now, you know, like I said, I've just started it. It's a few thousand words and you know how novels have to be, uh. You know, they have to, you have to take your time and, you know, really expand the story and you don't know where it's going to go.

You kind of think you do, but who knows? Awesome. And so I'm excited about it. Yeah. Fantastic. Fantastic. So you mentioned family, the fire service family. Do you consider the fire service a family? And, and how does that, how do you, how do you kind of look at [00:39:00] that as a family if you do? I, I do. And it's kind of a funny thing because, uh, My husband and I moved out of the area that we worked in when we got married, and we commuted, uh, over 100 miles to work, 130, 140 miles to work.

Um, and one of the reasons was, firefighters and paramedics, first responders, can be very clannish. And, you know, people are always, uh, saying, Oh, you're a firefighter, that sort of thing. And we felt it was important to move out of the environment and meet other people that do other things that are equally as important.

Or, you know, we were interested in having a life outside the fire department. Just firefighters. And so it's kind of funny because we moved away. We commuted for 25 years of our career and not to say we didn't get together. But, um, the 1 thing that that I will say is we recently went to a reunion and and I'm in contact with [00:40:00] them now.

And it's so funny. You see people you hadn't seen since you retired or before that retired before you. And it is it just turns into this wonderful environment of people that you go. Wow. You know, we. We did this, you know, and some are, you know, facing health issues. Some we've lost, you know, we've lost quite a few firefighters to, uh, and paramedics to, uh, you know, cancer and things, but it is quite, um, it is, it's, it's like a, they always say brotherhood, but it's a sisterhood too.

And it is like that. So, you know, I'm always, um, happy if I go somewhere and someone's wearing a shirt and I have no problem. I'll just say, Hey, you know, where do you work? Or, you know, and then you just automatically have this, um, common, common ground for the most part. And of course, me being a female, I've had them, you know, I've had some of them be like, Oh, you know, really?

You were a firefighter. I'm like, yeah, yes, I was in a big department. Well, [00:41:00] those people, it doesn't matter, does it?

So I'm assuming going through the fire service, being one of two females and, uh, in the eighties and nineties, you must've had some amazing mentors to kind of guide you through. What did those, you don't have to mention names per se, but what did those mentors give you, uh, to make you have a successful and long career?

Um, confidence. Confidence. And, uh, they had confidence in my abilities even before I did. They, they pushed me in a positive way. Now, I must mention too, there was a third female that came on. She, she got hired. Uh, she was in the academy and got hired, uh, after right after us. And she was a trapeze artist in the circus, so she would really fit.

And so she was the third and we were each on different shift. And then of course, when we merged with, uh, EMS. The [00:42:00] paramedics, there were a lot of females and they, they had to go to fire school and get their fire cert. But, um, but, you know, I was lucky to have mentors and I have to say there were men, you know, I mean, even when I went to paramedic school, um, you know, I, I had, I had actually, and I mentioned her in the book.

One of the mentors, a female that she was brilliant captain. She was just brilliant. And, um, I, I just tried to learn from the people that I respected male or female and, and I, and I worked hard and that would, and in the fire service, it was generally men, but I, I, I had some really good mentors that they did believe in me.

They, they, they wouldn't let me. You know, they didn't want to see me fail, and they knew that I had, uh, I had what it took. I was there for all the right reasons, and, and, you know, so I was lucky to work with a lot of, lot of, lot of good ones. And, and I won't say it was perfect. I had, I had men [00:43:00] and women, you know, test me, particularly when I became an officer.

Um, I had them, you know, Try to test me, which is probably common, right? Yeah, it's common. Test the new leader. But, but I did have a reputation of, of being a, being a good firefighter. I always say, and I said in the book, was I the best? No, but I worked with some brilliant ones and I tried to learn from them.

Uh. Working with some that I didn't have a whole lot of confidence in was probably one of my motivating reasons to become one myself. And I, and I say, you know, if you see something, say something, we have, you know, I have guys and women on my truck, particularly guys, some of them had, you know, pretty varied backgrounds in construction and, you know, welding and.

Lots of areas that I certainly didn't. So I would say, Hey, you know, I would, I would ask for their opinion, but ultimately the, you know, the decision [00:44:00] is mine as the officer on a scene. Yeah. Well, I think that's the best way, right? Having diverse teams or teams, crews, I mean, diverse crews, uh, that have bring all those kind of skillsets and you can start utilizing them to their strengths.

Right. So, and we had some brilliant paramedics, uh, Broward County is, uh, extremely. aggressive and assertive. And let me tell you, I, I would tell anyone some of the best that there are. And, um, some of them went on to become doctors. A lot of them were nurses on their off days, which I thought was crazy. I was like, Oh my God, how could you be on a rescue truck for 12 hours?

You're dropping people off and then you get off duty and you're going to the same hospital or you're working at a hospital, seeing people you dropped off 24. I couldn't do it, but they did. And so I did, I did, uh, you know, I did listen and trained with a lot of them as well and had them on my truck. And, uh, like I said, my, my, my advice to people [00:45:00] is, you know, you bid stations according to your seniority and your rank.

And I got to a point where they called me the old timer and I could have bid, you know, I could have bid an easy station and all of that. And I didn't want that. I wanted to continue to learn and I like the variety of, of being on, you know, a rescue truck or a fire truck. You know, all the different, um, types of apparatus.

Well, what an exciting, fresh, yeah, exciting career, right? Every day is totally different, right? Right. But there are people that, you know, they, they get a bed in a station and they stay at that station their whole career. And I just, it would really bore me, you know, for sure. But everybody's an individual with that.

So for the listeners listening right now and thinking. You know, I want to join the fire service or I'm just fresh into the fire service. What kind of tidbits or nuggets would you share with males or females joining the fire service today? What kind of wisdom would you, would you [00:46:00] share? I would say, um, show up ready to work, show up early, check out.

Don't, don't wait for somebody to ask you to check out the truck or clean the station. You know, we take care of the station as well. Um, know ever know where every piece of equipment is. And if you need help, you know, ask, but otherwise you need to check everything out every shift, um, be a sponge, learn, continue your education because you will throughout your career.

Um, as far as living in the, in a station environment, you know, we all live together is, uh, you know, there's different duties every day. You know, when you're cleaning, you're cleaning the kitchen, the next day you're doing bays, you know, Be, um, be assertive, be the first one up from the dinner table, particularly your first year, be the first one up from the dinner table, start clearing those dishes, [00:47:00] uh, grab the mop, and, uh, you know, uh, I say in my book, the story about teaching the young man about cleaning bathrooms, he didn't know, you know, younger people, they don't, they didn't, maybe they didn't know, you know, their mothers or whomever did that sort of thing, and they, they didn't know how to properly do it, and I talk about, you know, taking him aside and teaching him and then him thanking me for not embarrassing him, And I find that with the younger generations of, you know, making meals, you know, a lot of them never cooked.

And so, you know, you have them gather around when you're, you know, I, I cooked, my husband was really a great cook and helped a lot of them when he was on duty, but I would make, you know, pot roasts and have them, you know, have them help me or chili or whatever. And as I came up through the ranks, it became harder to cook.

So, you know, it was kind of, they, they cooked. Right, but you just have to be a willing participant in the fire service. You're, you're living together running calls [00:48:00] under the most, um, you know, can be the most stressful. Things and, you know, take it in stride and learn from it. Learn from, from every situation, whether it's at the station and, um, if something's bothering you again, like we talked about before, take that person aside and have a conversation and, and put it out, put it out there.

And don't, like I said, don't get too familiar. Like, I, I say that to the women because, you know, some, some of them I thought were getting too familiar too quick. You know, it's easy. Like, you know, when I, when I started the fire station, you know, or coming in the station, you know, I shook a lot of people's hands for many years.

You know, I just shook hands, you get to know a few of them and they'd give you a hug when they saw you kind of thing. And that took a long time, but. Don't get too familiar, draw your line in the sand, be confident, but don't be afraid to, don't be arrogant, you know, don't be afraid to ask, [00:49:00] continue your education, I mean, to me, that was so important, not only the training that you're going to have as part of a department, but, you know, sign up for school, get your, get your fire officer one, and, you know, really most urban departments now, you, you have to be a paramedic.

So you're going to be both. And, um, keep yourself as in physically great shape as you can and, and just be, be willing to do the right thing for people. I think that's a big tidbit for me is just because somebody's, you know, underneath the park bench and smelly and awful, that's somebody's, you know, that's someone's loved one.

Yeah, a hundred percent. Treat them with respect and, and, and take that, take as good a care of them as you would want someone to treat. You or one of your loved ones, don't just blow people off and say, Oh, you know, sign this, you know, you're fine go above and beyond and take good care of people. And they're scared to [00:50:00] death.

And that's what I would tell people is, you don't know how scared people are when, when they're calling 9 1 1 because they're having an emergency, scared to death. They're not familiar with all the stuff that goes on. And particularly if you're putting them in the back of a rescue truck and all the stuff that goes with that.

Right. you know, starting an IV or, you know, whatever it may be, backboarding them. And I would, um, I would tell them, you know, just remember that, that. Treat them with, with dignity. And, um, you know, I would, the funny thing is I've worked with a lot of, um, you know, young guys and they're young and good looking and we'd get these calls and it'd be an elderly person, you know, an elderly woman, and I would always make it a point to say, you know, they were like, I'm sorry, I called all of them.

Look at what we showed up for you. Look at these guys. How can you not look at them? I said, we're going to take the best care of you. And that's how I looked at it. We're going to take the best care of you that we possibly can. And in our fires, you know, we're going to take care of your property. And yeah, maybe a trailer, it's your home.[00:51:00]

We're not going to let it burn unless we have to, obviously. We're going to, we're going to take good care of your things. I would say sometimes firefighters kind of forget that, right? They, they're in it so much they forget to tell that, that person, Mrs. Smith, on the side of the road about the spine board, about the hard collar, how that's going to feel, because it's so routine for us, right?

But yeah, that's the scariest moment for that person, right? In their entire life. Yeah, it's like, don't grab that person's arm and stick a needle in it without telling them. Talk to them. You know, talk to them and, and, you know, of course, all the other stuff, you know, medically, you have to ask, you know, be kind to them, talk to them and, and assure them that you're, you're there, you, you and your crew, you're going to take the best care of, of them as you possibly can.

And, uh, Can I jump back to, you said familiar, what I'm just trying to wrap my head around what that means to you. You said being familiar, being too familiar, [00:52:00] too familiar. Yes. Well, I would say, you know, there are people that maybe they weren't on the job that long and, you know, they would come in and, you know, Give somebody a big old smooch on the cheek or sit on their lap or, or leave their things like we had, we had single bathrooms for a long time and, and now you have women's and men's and I used to be the only woman and I would tell the guys, listen, you can use my bathroom after I'm done, just clean up after yourself, but I would never leave like, you know, my clothes laying around where, you know, I kept everything really neat and was respectful of, of the other people that I lived with.

Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of my advice to women. I mentor them. It's like, you know, don't be, don't be so familiar with people, shake their hand, be professional, you know, that introduce yourself. And as you work with people and get to know them, you know, then, then, you know, things can change. You know, you, you, you develop a rapport, particularly, uh, when you run calls.[00:53:00]

with them and get to know them. Indy, it's been, uh, kind of great to kind of go through your, your life and the experiences. And I'm so happy that majority of your experience was very, very well, uh, kind of received by yourself and, and a blessing. I can tell that by, uh, the stories in your book, but also just kind of sitting down with you today.

So I love to hear. What would be one message that you'd love to our listener to hear today that, you know, just was, is going to inspire them to be that person that you admired so much in your career?

Be your authentic self. Um, You're not perfect. You're, you know, you're going to make mistakes. Uh, hopefully not repeat the mistakes, learn from your mistakes. And, you know, I say in my book, one thing I did say is, uh, it's not a [00:54:00] male bashing book at all. And I've, um, no, and, and it's not meant to be, I didn't write that book.

Um, But I would just say, you know, it's a, it's, it's such a great profession and it's really hurting right now as well, as you know, there's just not a lot of people that are getting into it as well as, you know, probably other professions as well. But I think people realize, you know, it's a, it's a tough job.

It's, it's, it's, it takes time. To go through and get your education so that you can qualify for getting a job with the department and it's continuous, but, you know, have confidence. I, I think it, I think it was so rewarding and I'm still passionate about it to, to be able to genuinely help people. And that to me, you have to have, I would say firefighters have lion's hearts.

You know, we, we, We want to do the right thing. You know, it's kind of been our, in our blood. And, uh, then when you get into the medicine as well, you, you know, you just, you just want to help [00:55:00] people. You want, you want to be that person. And, you know, even in retirement now, you, you see people are struggling.

It's just an automatic thing to say, Hey, you know, can I help you? Can I, can I get this for you? I'll take, you know, And I just think, you know, people need to be kind and you need to be strong and firm. Be kind and just realize there's a lot of people out there that are having a really rough time. I think that's great that you mentioned that because I truly think that being a compassionate, kind leader is, is a superpower.

It, you don't have to be a authoritarian style leader yelling and screaming to be a leader. You can be a compassionate leader for sure. And I know you mentioned that in your book as well, right? That yeah. Worked. You didn't wanna be That I worked with, yeah, yeah. I've worked with people that were like that.

I'm sure you have too. And um, boy, you know, that makes there a rough shift. You might get the job done and that's an inspire, you know, job. Yeah. You might get the job done, but uh, yeah. You're definitely not inspiring the team. No. So, so saying that, I'd love to hear, [00:56:00] for the female firefighters listening right now, what inspirational message would you send to them from another fellow female firefighter?

Again, have, have, uh, have the confidence that you can do it. Um, have integrity and honesty. And, and just, uh, you know, welcome it with open arms, but don't, don't be blinded by, you know, people thinking that you can't do it because you're a female, don't be, um, you know, just don't be blinded by people that there's, there's always going to be people and, and I will say men, but there's always going to be people and women too, can be pretty, pretty catty, but, uh, Stand up for yourself and and know that if you have know that you you can do it and just Have, have the heart and the soul to do it and continue your, [00:57:00] continue your education and, and that will, you know, that will bring the confidence, you know, confidence, competence equals confidence.

You know what I mean? It, it, it will, it will happen once you're on the job. But, you know, if it's, if it's a career that interests you, um, go for it. I know it's not going to be an easy one to get, but. Keep your blinders on and your focus, and don't let anybody tell you that you can't. Beautiful. Yeah, it's an amazing career.

I would never have trade, uh, those 24 years that I put in for anything else. 100%. Yeah. So how can people learn more about, uh, Cindy and where can they find your, your book? Well, they can, they can, uh, they can find it on Amazon, but I do have a website. It's, uh, you know, sisterandabrotherhood. com. And it, it, it, Talks about, you know, my background.

It has my bio, uh, and then it has contact [00:58:00] information that they can contact me at, uh, contact at Sister in a Brotherhood or, uh. Five Alarm Fire, Five Alarm Health at gmail. com. But if they go, um, if they want to order, order the book, I mean, it's available on Amazon. Um, if you go to some of the other books and bookstores, uh, they probably have it, but everybody today, it seems like they go through Amazon.

So it's, it's, it's, it's available on Amazon. I don't have, um, an audio book, and I've been asked that so much. You know, I would like to do it and do it myself. Um, I was told at the time that it's a totally different process and it's, and it's difficult. But then I've had a lot of people say it's kind of strange.

It's like, I don't read a book. I don't read books. I listen to audio. And so that would be something I'd be interested in, you know, finding somebody that I could do it, you know, get it done and get it out there. Fantastic. Is there a question that you wish I asked that I did not ask you?[00:59:00]

Oh, that's an interesting question. Wow. Um,

I think you covered it really well. And I think, um, you know, you're, you, it's been a wonderful interview. And you've asked me some really interesting questions that, that you can tell that you were in the field as well. And, you know, it just comes from a different perspective. Um, uh, I think you've, you've done a great job.

I've, I hope that I've. Yeah. It's actually a question that I ask everyone is, is there a question that I, cause some people are like, aw, I wish he asked me this one. Well, I think for, for the question is that you ask is how do you see yourself now and, and what are you doing? And that's an important question.

Cause I did write. [01:00:00] Right. The book has been out for a little while and, you know, now I'm just, uh, it's so funny with a book, you know, I. I think, you know, if I, if you were, if you had a name, if you're famous, you can write a book and it's out there immediately. And people are saying it, but for, so it's a slow burn.

I said, it's a slow burn. It's not a, it's not a, it's not a big fire. Um, so it's funny now, it's starting to really filter out there and get out there and. It's just, it's not, you know, nothing happens overnight, I should say. Yeah. Yeah. The biggest part about having a book is not writing it. It's marketing it.

Yes. Yes. Yes. And if you've been a civil servant, like you have been and me, it opened up a whole new world, you know, it's kind of like, Oh my gosh. Whole new skillset. It's a whole new skill set, but, but again, I, I'm, I'm proud of what I did and I want to, I'm very passionate about the fire service. I'm hoping to continue to inspire other young people, men and [01:01:00] women to, to jump in there as well as, uh, you know, being, uh, giving other people that are interested in the fire service.

About joining and older people and insight to what, what it's like. It was my experience. What, what it was like, I enjoy those because there's so many misperceptions out there about what the fire service is. If you're, you know, Mary Smith on the side of the road, really don't know much about what goes on behind the scenes.

Right? So, no, they don't. Yeah, they don't. Yeah, they think it, you know, they used to tell you, Oh, you, you know, you firefighters sit in a firehouse and play checkers. Well, not really. I wish I could have done that, but no, there was no time for that. There's no time for that. Yeah. There's a lot more to it, you know, but it's worthwhile.

Yes. So I want to leave with my last question for season two, which is, um, What areas in your life do you need more support [01:02:00] in? Oh,

um, I think for me it's,

it's, it's, I'm finding, uh, new friends. I'm in a new area. And, uh, just. You know, I'm in a new area and, uh, I do have a few friends, but just, you know, developing friendships when you're, you know, it's hard when you're retired because, you know, a lot of people are still working or they have children or they have, you know, obligations and, you know, it's, it's, it's, I like people of all ages and, um, I remember my mother always saying to me, you know, I don't want to just hang out with old people.

All they do is talk about their friends. Aches and pains in their pills, I think. And, you know, I used to laugh at her, but I'd say, mom, you're old. And she'd say, you know, yeah, but so I kind of, now that I'm older, uh, old, [01:03:00] I find myself, you know, I like people of all ages. I like interesting people and I have friends in my, in their twenties, you know, obviously, you know, their, their stage in life and.

30s. They have families. But, um, what I hope, what I'm hoping to do is just to continue to get maybe more involved in the community and just really, really, um, having, uh, developing really good friendships, uh, in this new area that I'm in. My husband and I both. Yeah, that's so important. Yeah, and we're starting to do that.

Socialization is so important. It is. Yep. And even if you're an introvert, uh, socialization is super critical, right? So. Yeah. They're, they're finding out how important it is, you know, with people that, you know, you have to be, you know, among a community, uh, particularly as you get older for a lot of reasons.

But I mean, there's people that we know that relatives, they lived out in the middle of nowhere and you get older, it's difficult, you know, you need to be somewhere. Yeah. and be engaged with, with different things. Yeah. The [01:04:00] fire service, uh, well for me personally, and a lot of people that I've interviewed is our friends are in the fire service.

All of our friends are in the fire service or police or ambulance. And for myself included, I've had very few friends that were not in the fire service, um, during my career. Right. So prior to. Friends everywhere. And then I really niched into the fire service friends and it was like, it definitely made an impact.

Great friends, but very, very kind of siloed in that aspect. Limiting. It's limiting. Yeah. And, and I think too, it's like, even though I've been retired, you know, in my, you know, I'm always going to be considerate, you know, I always. You know, I feel like, you know, I'm always going to be considered a firefighter, paramedic.

I mean, it's just something, you know, it's in my blood. I mean, and that's kind of, I don't know if you feel like that. It doesn't matter. You're retired. It's just, you know, it's and people say, oh, you know, you, you were that once and it kind of irritates me. It's like, no, I, [01:05:00] yeah, I've worked, but I, but I always consider myself part of that.

And, and again, when I told you we moved out of the area, that was a big deal to us to develop friendships. The people that did other things. And so I think, I think it is important if you just hang around people that do the same thing. I mean, you kind of are cheating yourself of really wonderful people out there and do all kinds of great stuff.

I agree. I agree. Well, Cindy, it's been a pleasure to connect with you and congrats on your book and the two that are coming out in the short little bit. That's exciting to hear. Well, I don't know about how short, but they'll come out eventually. That's good. Eventually is better than never. So I appreciate your time and sharing a little inspiration to our, you know, maybe up and comers, but also the ones who are getting close to retirement as well.

So thank you very much. Any final words? Well, just, uh, again, I want to thank you so much for reaching out and, um, I've really enjoyed talking [01:06:00] to you. Maybe, you know, the next book comes out, we'll, we'll speak again. Yes. So everyone, well, check out, uh, Sister in the Brotherhood and, uh, on Amazon, and you can connect with Cindy through, uh, the email she's suggested.

And, uh, I hope you enjoy this great conversation until next time stay well.

Thank you for tuning in to Beneath the Helmet. We hope that this podcast has provided you with valuable insights into the world of firefighters health and wellness. Remember, caring for your physical, mental, and spiritual well being is crucial to achieving optimal performance. Join us next time on Beneath the Helmet for more inspiring conversations.

Until then, stay well.